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标题: 哪些课程是属于ICT课程 [打印本页]

作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 00:43
标题: 哪些课程是属于ICT课程
如题,哪里可以查到么?

数学和统计都算么?
作者: 我的霍巴特    时间: 27-12-2007 00:56
ICT是啥~!?
作者: icepeanuts    时间: 27-12-2007 00:57
你还不如问你的专业是否能过得了职业评估这一关。

你的专业,学历,工作经历是什么?

大家了解后,才知道如何帮你。
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 01:13
啊,回复好快啊

我本科和研究生专业都是信息管理和信息系统.

工作四年. 数据仓库领域. 工作经验应该没问题. 想申请oracle specialist.

现在比较担心的是专业通不过. 计算机课程连数学加起来也就12,3门..  . 其他很多信息学啊,文献检索一类的.

BTW: ICT: information and communication technology
作者: ubuntuhk    时间: 27-12-2007 01:24
“其他很多信息学啊,文献检索一类的.” = infromation?
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 01:38
标题: 困扰很久了
诸如此类:

情报学概论        Introduction to information science
科技文献检索与利用        The Searches of Scientific Information
信息传播学        Information Communication Technology
主题检索语言        Subject Retrieval Language

名字听起来挂钩,实则不然.
作者: 熊猫阿三    时间: 27-12-2007 02:16
工作多久了?
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 02:44
工作四年. 数据仓库领域. 想申请oracle specialist.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 02:48
刚刚查阅了一大堆帖子:
http://www.freeoz.org/forum/view ... hlight=%D7%A8%D2%B5
顺利通过ACS评估的IT专业列表(Group A)

以下样本为DIY移民留学家园站长Alan整理编译,转载请注明出处.

中国大陆的专业(学位)可以顺利通过ACS Group A的列表:

Computer Application(Bachelor in Engineering)

Management Information System( Bachelor Degree in Science)

Computer Science and Technology ( Bachelor in Engineering)

Computer Science( Bachelor in Engineering)

Computer Science & Engineering( Bachelor in Engineering)

Management Information System( Bachelor in Management)

Computer Application(Bachelor in Science)

Electronic & Information Technology(Bachelor in Science)

Computer and Application( Graduation certificate, but no degree)

Management Information System( Bachelor Degree in Engineering)

Electronic Engineering( Bachelor in Engineering)

Computer Application (3-year diploma)+ Computer Application (Part-time Graduation
Certificate for undergraduate course, no degree)
我的应该是属于标红的那个.
可是即使在这个列表里面,也要求计算机课程到1/3吧?

我的成绩单已经出来了. 正在考虑要不要重新领取一份,让学校把一些课程删除掉.....
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:01
标题: 终于被我找到了!!
不一定是100%肯定, 但基本上还是很有望的!

我把所有的ACS官方文档上ICT课程描述发上来,给同样辛苦寻找的同志们一个参考. 如果不对的话也希望有人指正!

http://www.acs.org.au/index.cfm? ... mID=accUniversities
左边菜单Course Accreditation-->Accreditation Manual
有个文本文件的附件提供下载:

        As such it specifies a minimum set of areas of knowledge which is relevant to ICT generally. This set has been ordered into two groupings as follows:

        Group 1 - Generic
Interpersonal Communications
        Ethics/Social Implications/Professional Practice
        Project Management and Quality Principles


Group 2 - ICT Specific
Data Structures and Algorithms
Program Design and Implementation
        Software Engineering and Methodologies
        Information Security
        Conceptual Modeling
        Systems Analysis and Design
        Database Management
        Computer Organisation and Architecture
        Systems Software
        Data Communications and Networks
        Discrete Mathematics
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:03
标题: Computer Organisation and Architecture
Preamble:
This area encompass  organisation of simple computer systems and the way in which hardware provides the basic facilities for the machine.  It introduces techniques involved in the programming of input output operations and the interrupt structure which underlies operating system organisation in uniprocessor systems.

Table of topics :

Computer Architecture and Instruction Set Design

Review of  Assembly Language Instructions with particular
emphasis on instructions used in I/O programming

Interfacing assembly language routines with a high level language
(e.g., C)

The Operation of Basic System Utilities   Assembler, Linker & Loader

An Introduction to I/O Programming
          Accessing I/O devices and polled I/O
          Interrupt driven I/O
          Interrupt Controllers and the Interrupt Mechanism
          DMA and IO Channels

Memory
          An overview of Memory Module Design
          The principles of operation of Cache Memory
          The principles of operation of Virtual Memory Systems

The Operation of the CPU
          Overview of Control Unit Design   Hardwired vs Microprogrammed
          Arithmetic Logic Unit   Carry Prediction (at gate level)
          Pipelining   issues involved in Arithmetic and Instruction pipeline design
          CISC vs RISC

Review of the Implementation of DOS and UNIX File Systems

Context :
Through a study of the principle of operation of the various components of a computer system, the students will gain an appreciation of how the hardware will affect the development of software systems.

Students are exposed to the requirements for writing systems level software through the completing of programs which perform input   output operations involving both polled and interrupt driven input.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:03
标题: Conceptual Modelling
Preamble:
This topic deals with practical methods for the derivation of a range of conceptual models and provides some emphasis on the relational model of data.

Table of Topics:

Abstraction and Modelling
        Abstraction and modelling - classification, classes, types and instances, generalisation, inheritance, association and aggregation.  Models as partial views providing particular perspectives - data, processes, objects, events and time, locations, user and organisational structures and roles, motivations and business purposes.
       
Semantic data modelling
        Entity relationship modelling - entity types, relationship types and attribute types

The Relational Data Model
        Transforming entity relationship models into relational models
        Set theory
        Relational structures - domains, base relations, virtual relations, tuples, attributes, candidate, primary and foreign keys
        Relational integrity constraints - entity, referential and domain integrity
        Relational manipulation operations - relational algebra and calculus
       
Normalisation
        Anomalies caused by  redundant data in relations
        Functional dependency, normalisation and normal forms
       
The Structured Query Language
        Data definition statements - create, drop, alter
        Data manipulation statements - select, update, delete and insert
        Access control statements - grant, revoke

Context:

This area introduces the role of conceptual modelling as part of the system development process and introduces the basic notions of abstraction used in all forms of conceptual modelling.  It places particular emphasis on modelling the data (static) aspects of applications, using entity relationship models and relational models.   Normalisation is introduced as a basis for ensuring that relations do not contain redundant data.  The Structured Query Language is introduced as a commonly used language with which to deal with relational databases.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:04
标题: 5.3 Database Management
Preamble:
This topic deals with the organisation of sets of shared data for efficient query and update.  It is necessary to develop an appreciation of the data resource and the issue of managing data.  As well as the need to understand the technical background of computer system management of data there is also a need to define data needs, functions of data, user-oriented data languages, and the management of data and information within the organisation.

Table of Topics:

File Processing
        I/O operations
        physical and logical files
        buffer management

File Structure Concepts
        file access
        performance issues
        indexed files
        B-trees
        indexed sequential access
        B+trees
        VSAM files
        hashing

Schema Architecture
        fact based
        relational
        hierarchical
        network

Query Languages
        foundations
        query processing and optimisation

Concurrency Control

Crash Recovery and Transaction Management

Context :
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:05
标题: Data Communications and Networks
Preamble:
This area describes the role of data communications in a modern technological environment and examines the design, implementation and management of data communications networks.  It covers basic concepts and terminology; the International Standards Organisation reference model for open systems interconnection; communications equipment, software and services; network architectures; an overview of local area networks; Telstra facilities.

Table of topics :

Signals, Impairments and Media

Communications Techniques

Link Control and Efficiency

Networking

Local Area Networks

Wide Area Networks

Network Management

Network Security

Network Applications

Context :

Telecommunications is an increasingly important aspect of information technology -local, metropolitan and wide-area networks are shrinking the business world and all companies, regardless of their size, have become aware of the need to exchange electronic data across organisational and geographic boundaries.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:05
标题: Data Structures and Algorithms
Preamble :  
This area deals with specific classes of problems and their efficient solutions. It includes algorithm design, complexity analysis, efficiency measurement and proof of correctness. Data structures should cover the storage and manipulation of data within memory and on external storage devices. There should be a coverage of simple and complex/structured data types, abstract data structures and file organisation and access methods. The area is not specific to any programming language or paradigm.

Table of topics :  
Data Types
        Simple data types
                numeric, text
        Structured data types
                arrays, records
        Abstract data types
                stacks, queues, linked lists, trees

File Organisation and Processing
        serial/sequential files, indexed files, hash addressed files
        sequential and direct access methods

Typical Operations on Data Structures
        construction
        sorting, searching, indexing
        updating   additions/deletions/amendments

Implementation/Representation
        internal representation of data types
        file index structures
        treatment of collisions and overflow

Context :  
The study of these topics should be related to the storage, manipulation and retrieval of data in typical working situations. There is no implied bias towards, for example, commercial as opposed to technical/scientific applications. The purpose of the area is to ensure that an IT professional is aware of the alternatives available for data storage, processing and retrieval and their respective advantages and disadvantages and is able to choose an appropriate solution for a given problem situation.

While a detailed understanding of the algorithms associated with these procedures is essential, there is no presumption that a candidate has the knowledge of any specific programming language in which to implement them.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:06
标题: Discrete Mathematics
就是传说中的数学了
Discrete Mathematics

Preamble:
A study of discrete mathematics is an essential complement to any studies in information technology

Table of topics :
Computer Arithmetic
        Numbering systems e.g., decimal, binary, octal and hexadecimal
Set Theory
        Definitions and notation
        Venn diagrams
        Set operations
        The algebra of sets
        Enumeration techniques
                permutations and combinations
        Inclusion/exclusion principle
        Multinomial coefficients
Logic
        Simple and compound propositions
        Proposotional calculus
        Truth tables
        Properties of logic
Boolean Algebra
        Axioms
        Functions and their determination
        Switching circuits and properties
        Normal forms
        Simplification of Boolean functions and networks
Graph Theory
        Graphs
        Euler and Hamiltonian graphs
        Isomorphisms and isomorphic graphs
        Planar graphs
        Applications
Matrix Theory
        Definition of a matrix
        Basic operations and the algebra of matrices
        Applications

Context :
This area is intended to consolidate mathematical knowledge necessary in areas of computing which require mathematical skills.  It introduces students to selected topics in discrete mathematics essential to computing and computing applications.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:08
标题: Ethics/Social Implications/Professional Practice
不知道法律算不算. 知识产权应该算吧
Ethics/Social Implications/Professional Practice

Preamble:
This area covers the body of ideas and commonly held principles that broadly apply to ethical behaviour in the IT environment.  The intent is to expose students to standards of professional behaviour and to encourage a commitment to developing a personal ethical framework.  The area has several purposes including:

1.        An introduction to and critical review of the IT profession's Code of Ethics and Code of Conduct governing the behaviour of IT professionals;

2.        A broad understanding of the impact of IT on society;

3.        The importance of knowing one's belief system and values when reasoning confronting issues at the work place as a professional.  

Table of topics :
Introduction
        What's Ethics got to do with me?
Social Issues
        Culture and heritage
        Culture and technology
Global issues
Organisational issues
        Application of technology in Australian business
        Ethical issues in private and public sectors
Technology
Belief Systems
        The law and computer crime
        Reliability, safety in software systems
Responsibility - personal and community
IT Professional Codes
        ACS Code of Ethics
        ACS Code of Conduct
       
Context :

The intent of this area is to expose students to existing standards of professional behaviour and to encourage in them a feeling and personal responsibility towards a commitment to developing a personal ethical framework.  It is unlikely that the topic can be treated as a theory area.  Case studies and current media related articles featuring potential ethical situations/dilemmas should be used to authenticate and support the area's objectives.

[ 本帖最后由 lo_yu 于 27-12-2007 04:13 编辑 ]
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:09
标题: Interpersonal Communications
估计演讲和交际都算上了.
Preamble :
This topic deals with individual behaviour and group dynamics and the application of these principles to the system development process. There has been a consistent comment from employers that a high level of interpersonal communication ability is an essential attribute of IT staff at all levels. It is important that those seeking employment in this profession appreciate that it is largely people centred rather than technology centred.

Table of topics :
Written communication
        effective expression
        logical ordering of ideas
        format and content of reports and formal documents
        technical writing and documentation proposals and procedures
Verbal communication
        structuring material for oral presentation
        visual presentation of information
        the use of appropriate supporting technology
        effective speaking and audience management
Interpersonal skills
        interview techniques
        managing group dynamics
                technical reviews
                formal and informal meetings
        negotiation skills
        team management and conflict resolution

Context:
As well as acquiring general communication skills, IT professionals should appreciate the working environment in which they are exercised.

Specific areas in which these skills need to be employed include :
        the presentation of complex technical matters to a non technical audience,
        the management of peer technical reviews or walkthroughs,
        the specification of procedures and structures by textual and diagrammatic         means,
        the selection and management of multi skilled development teams with disparate interests and backgrounds,
        the preparation of documents of a technical nature such as tenders and requests for  proposals,presentations of technical products and systems proposals.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:09
标题: Program Design and Implementation
Preamble :  
This area deals with the ability to specify a solution to a problem in a form which is able to be converted to a machine executable product which will produce the correct result for a specified problem. It encompasses the ability to design a solution to a problem, preferably in a form which is independent of the target programming language for its implementation, to translate that design into the syntax of a programming language and to produce an executable program which is correct, efficient and maintainable. The area also encompasses the aspects of software documentation which are essential to the effective use of the software during its lifetime.

Table of topics :  
Program specification
        design of documentation to specify the requirements of a program
Program design
        algorithm design and associated documentation
        program structure and logic
        data design
Programming languages
        levels of languages in terms of machine vs user orientation
        suitability of languages for problem domains
        an appreciation of the operation of programs at machine level
Program implementation
        structure and syntax of a programming language
        the procedures of editing, compiling, linking, etc, needed to produce an executable program
        internal documentation issues
Program testing
        formal proof of correctness vs testing procedures
        design of test data
        program testing methods
Program documentation
        internal and external program documentation
        differing documentation requirements for technical staff and users
Programming paradigms
        an appreciation of the existence of and fundamental differences between         procedural, functional, logic and object oriented paradigms

Context :  

It is expected that candidates will have a working knowledge of at least one language in one of the contemporary paradigms. They will be able to design, code, test, implement and document programs of a moderate complexity in terms of the nature of the problem and the data structures and processing techniques required for its solution.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:10
标题: Project Management and Quality Assurance
Preamble:
This area deals with the methods and problems of managing and assuring the quality of computing system projects, particularly from the viewpoint of the practitioner as a member of the project team.  The area takes a balanced approach to software quality in that there is a focus on both product and process issues.  Factors that impact quality outcomes associated with all phases of development are addressed.  Throughout there should be a constructive focus on quality; that is, quality requirements are planned and specified, processes are then put in place to satisfy these requirements, and these processes are supported by integral processes which ensure that the quality requirements have been satisfied.

Table of topics :
Concepts and Models
        project definition
        project success
        measuring success
        post-implementation reviews
        project size
                lines of code
                effort/duration
                function points
        project life cycle

Project Management Techniques
        steering committees
        project justification
        project planning
        project development strategies
        methodologies
        risk assessment
        estimation
        scheduling
        project tracking and reporting

Introduction to Software quality
        Understanding and Measuring Quality
        The Costs and Benefits of Quality
        Role of People in Producing Quality Software
        Factors that Impact the Quality of Software

Software Quality Planning
        Role of Planning
        Software Quality Requirements
        Preparing a Software Quality Plan
        Implementing a Software Quality Plan
        Preparing a Quality Manual

Processes for Assuring the Quality of Software
        Risk Management
        Conformance to Standards
        Reviews, Audits, Walkthroughs and Inspections
        Verification, Validation and Testing
        Configuration Management

Product Quality
        Software Product Standards
        Quality Attributes of Software
        Product Characteristics of Quality Software
        Measuring and Evaluating Product Quality and Associated Metrics

Process Quality
        Software Process Standards
        Process Definition
        Process Measurement

Process Assessment
        Process Improvement
        Capability Evaluation
        Procurement of Software

Post Development Software Quality Assurance
        Maintenance and Evolution of Software
        Re-engineering of Software
        Software Product Quality Improvement

Context:
An understanding of the principles, techniques and tools of project management are essential in the management of the inherent complexities of the systems development lifecycle.  The study of this area presumes there have been previous studies in systems analysis and software engineering which covers the software life-cycle and the use of associated standards.  Proficiency in programming in at least one language is also expected.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:10
标题: Security
Preamble:

Information technology professionals are increasingly responsible for the incorporation of security services and mechanisms into overall information systems under development and in operation.  This responsibility is expected to increase as national and international Guidelines and legislation are developed and enforced.  The I.T. Professional will need to be familiar with Social, Governmental and Legal requirements in this area and to incorporate appropriate technologies into systems during the development phase with appropriate levels of security management created for ongoing usage of the systems.

Table of topics :

Historical Background
        role of information technology professionals

Societal, Governmental and Legal Imperatives for Information Systems Security and Privacy
        International guidelines (OECD Privacy and Information Systems Security Guidelines)
        Regional security requirements (European Community)
        Legal requirements - Australia's Privacy Act, State privacy and computer security / crime related Acts and Regulations
        Australian standards for information security

Professional Responsibility and Information Systems Security
        Relationships between concepts of Quality, Safety, Reliability, and Security / Software Engineering

Computer Security
        Hardware requirements and features
        Operating systems security
                Access control, Authentication, Integrity, Confidentiality e.g. RACF, ACF-2, etc.
        UNIX security (an example of techniques)
        Database security
        Personal computer/Small systems security

Security Technologies
        Access control mechanisms
                Algorithms - Hash, One-way and Related Functions / SHA, ISO
        Cryptography
                Symmetric and Asymmetric techniques
                commonly-used ciphers: DES, RSA, RC2-4, IDEA, SAFER, etc.
                Key Management
                Modes of usage
        Authentication architectures
                third party schemes/certificates

Network Security
        early proprietary and mainframe technologies - IBM, DEC
        Open Systems Interconnection security architecture (ISO 7498-2)
                security services and mechanisms
        MIT "Kerberos"
        ECMA model - "SESAME"
        security and telecommunications services
                computer-telephone integration
Trusted Systems and Networks

        "Rainbow" series (USA) / National Criteria, e.g. Canada, Australia, and others
        ITSEC / ITSEM (Europe)
                concepts of security functionality and enforcement/verification
        Common criteria
        Significance of trusted systems technologies
                verification techniques and software engineering

Security in the Distributed Systems (Client/Server) and Object Oriented Environments

Security and Specific Industry Requirements
        Health care industry
        Banking and finance industry
        Commercial and military government systems

Security Management
        Responsibilities
        Organisation
        Management requirements

Context :
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:11
标题: Software Engineering and Methodologies
Preamble :  
This area deals with the design and implementation of programs and large software systems that meet specifications and are safe, secure, reliable, dependable and maintainable. It includes models of the software development process, requirements analysis, specification, design, implementation, validation and verification, documentation and the use of appropriate software tools.

Table of topics :  
Fundamentals of Software Engineering
        requirements analysis
        functional and technical specifications
        process, data and object orientation models
        documentation standards
        software testing
        software maintenance
        software quality assurance
        formal specification methods
        software configuration management
Project Management
        project planning, estimation and control
        project evaluation and control techniques
        team construction and management
        principles of software project management
        prototyping

Context :  
Candidates should be exposed to the practices of "programming in the large". It is expected that software assignments will be managed along the same lines as would be used for the development and implementation of large, complex systems. The emphasis of this area is not merely the writing of programs but the team interaction and project management which is an integral part of a large software system. There must be an underlying theme of producing software which is of the quality expected by the user and which meets the user's specifications.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:12
标题: Systems Analysis and Design
Preamble:

This area develops basic systems analysis and design skills by examining commonly used techniques and system development methodologies.  A range of life-cycle models are considered including the classical waterfall approach and more recent approaches such as prototyping and evolutionary development.  The aim is to present a balanced overview of the process of analysing user requirements, designing computerised information systems to meet these requirements and at the same time developing the necessary skills to apply the techniques to simple problems.

Table of Topics:

Role of Information Systems in an Organisation
System Development Methodologies
        Different systems development life cycle models such as waterfall, spiral, evolutionary, prototyping
        Phases, stages, activities and stakeholders, deliverables, models and modelling techniques.
        Common system development methodologies - structured analysis and design, information engineering and object oriented approaches
Fact Finding Techniques
        Interviews, workshops, discussions, forms and documents, observation.
The role of Models and Modelling Techniques
        A framework for relating and understanding models - planning, analysis, design and implementation stages versus data, process, behaviour, location, organisation and motivation perspectives.
Business Area Analysis
        Problems, participants, physical versus essential models,
        Typical modelling techniques based on any one development methodology or paradigm which may include data flow diagrams, functional decomposition diagrams, functional dependency diagrams, decision tables / trees, state transition diagrams, process descriptions, entity relationship diagrams, class diagrams, object diagrams, interaction diagrams, module diagrams, etc.
Business Systems Design
        Constraints, problems and participants.  Deciding on the automation boundary.  Design options. Typical modelling techniques based on any one development methodology or paradigm which may include structure charts, dialog flow diagrams, module diagrams, call graphs,etc.  User interface design - ergonomics, data entry and validation, input forms, windows, window objects, screens and reports.  Transforming analysis models into design models.
Supporting Analysis and Design
        The use of proformas and standards, system dictionaries and CASE tools.
Project Management
        Team structures, project scenarios, risk assessment, monitoring and measurement, tools PERT/ CPM
Quality Assurance
        Walkthroughs, inspects, reviews, consistency checks
       
Context:

This area introduces system development methods and a range of approaches to the system development life-cycle.  It introduces the relevant fact finding techniques and provides a basis to understand the use of models and modeling techniques in systems analysis and design.  It considers business area analysis and a business system design in detail and provides an introduction to the various modeling techniques used to support these activities. It provides an introduction to how these activities may be supported by the use of CASE tools and system dictionaries.  It also provides an introduction to project management and quality assurance techniques.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:12
标题: Systems Software
Preamble:

This area is intended to provide students with an understanding of the structure of operating systems (at the user and system levels) and real time software. The area examines the process and resource management functions of such software and the nature of the hardware software interface. Additionally, the security and administration functions of such systems are examined. Multi  processor and distributed systems are also covered.

There is considerable emphasis in the area placed on practical work, involving selected programming techniques and algorithms used widely in the development of system software for both large and small computer systems.

Table of Topics:

An operating system at the user level
     command processing and scripts
     security and administration in a modern operating system
An operating system at the systems programming level
     an operating system kernel
     low level facilities;
     processes and state vectors;
     hardware interface via interrupt handling
Process management, including:
     process synchronisation
     process scheduling
     models for interprocess communication (ipc)
     threads and thread management
     specification of concurrent systems
Resource management, including:
     file system and device (i/o) management
     deadlock preconditions and process graphs
     memory management issues and algorithms

Context :

Students should be exposed to the same practices as would be taught in Software Engineering, i.e. a "programming in the large" methodology. It is expected that software assignments will be managed along the same lines as would be used for the development and implementation of a large, complex operating system. The emphasis of this area is not merely the writing of programs but the team interaction and project management which is an integral part of building any commercial operating system. There must be an underlying theme of producing software which is of the quality expected by the user and which meets the user's specifications.
作者: lo_yu    时间: 27-12-2007 04:14
困了. 希望明天看到版主响应和确认....
作者: Allen2005    时间: 27-12-2007 08:16
没问题的,这些课程都能算。
作者: 小树熊    时间: 27-12-2007 11:20
如果楼主都过不了,基本上大部分人都没戏。
鉴定完毕!
作者: icepeanuts    时间: 27-12-2007 11:37
应该没问题。去找ACS吧。
作者: 熊猫阿三    时间: 27-12-2007 14:56
lz这个帖子可以申请加入ACS的必看贴了...
作者: 小树熊    时间: 27-12-2007 15:03
对,可以加精!
作者: 我的霍巴特    时间: 27-12-2007 16:55
太深了。。。淹住了。。。
作者: 沉沉    时间: 27-12-2007 18:07
Ding!
作者: lo_yu    时间: 28-12-2007 17:41
怎么申精呢?
作者: jim0519    时间: 10-9-2009 13:49
绝对是精华贴,这个问题困扰了俺很久了,一直很纠结,怎能不顶,谢谢各位移友。
作者: jilly211    时间: 15-11-2010 14:04
这个很有用




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