TRA UNSUCCESSFUL, 342315电子仪器技工（特级）,恭请先行达人指教还有希望吗？

starheart

5月10日签收，06/02/2011 10:04 PM收到邮件通知出结果了，心想效率很高嘛，大大少于30个工作日就评估结束了。谁知上网一查，心一沉，UNSUCCESSFUL竟是这样突兀的映入眼帘，天旋地转、万念俱灰，雅思没有、评估不过，即使澳洲公司肯担保也没戏啊！消沉几天，让节日的欢快让自己暂时遗忘，待重头收拾旧山河。

一直从事与维修机器的Technical Service Engineer或Customer Service Engineer，申请TRA评估342315 - Electronic Instrument Trades Worker (Special Class)，感觉和这个职业很贴近，虽然名头为工程师，但是和EA的从事具有创造性工作的Engineer还是有本质的区别，一直是按部就班的根据维修手册的步骤干活。

以下是原文，我理解为前2段理由写了TRA要求的正规培训的证明以及具体要求的材料，但是没有提及我的材料到底是否符合要求；在此我提供了《应用电子仪器》大专毕业证和成绩单密封件。
理由第3、4段写了没有提供非正规学徒的证据，不明白为啥说和申请评估的不是直接相关职业，难道鬼佬一根筋认为推荐信上写的title是Engineer就不判定为Trades Worker；在此是参照许多TRA前辈的经验在推荐信中提及学徒经历，并且推荐人认可完成学徒，工作经验写了90页的图文并茂的维修保养案例，摘录维修手册中的步骤和图片写的现在公司的工作，没有写前2家公司的。

Your application for a skills assessment under the Skilled Worker Program has been processed and your result is UNSUCCESSFUL for the following reasons.

Trades Recognition Australia (TRA) requires detailed and verifiable evidence of completing 900 hours of formal training (structured tuition), which is accredited by an authorised governing body; and is directly related to the nominated occupation. Formal Training (structured tuition) has to include detailed and verifiable evidence of completing the theoretical part of the nominated occupation at a college or school, which is accredited by an authorised governing body to deliver the nominated course.

Detailed and verifiable evidence of Formal Training (structured tuition) would include; Certificate/Diploma and Academic Transcript from a college which is accredited by an authorised governing body. Formal training (structured tuition) must be directly related to the nominated occupation.

You have provided no evidence of having undertaken a period of practical training equivalent to an informal apprenticeship or a traineeship directly related to the nominated trade. Therefore, the evidence fails to demonstrate completion of the four/five year period of directly related and relevant employment and training set out in the SWPAC. TRA requires distinct evidence in any future applications to demonstrate completion of an apprenticeship or traineeship. You will need to provide evidence of practical on-the-job training under the direct
supervision of a qualified tradesperson in the occupation or trade. Additionally you will need to provide evidence of successful completion of the informal apprenticeship or traineeship that has resulted in you being recognised by an acceptable employer as a fully qualified tradesperson.

It has been noted that your employment with your employers appears not to be directly related to the nominated trade, however, your references fail to demonstrate your work experience. If you do not agree with this result, you can apply for a review of your assessment by completing the attached form and returning it to us together with any new information you wish to supply in support of your original
application. You have the opportunity for one review. Your review application must be received by TRA within 60 days from the date of this letter.

A fee of AUD$300 is payable when lodging the request. Should the review overturn the assessment result, and the information on which the new result is based was previously held by TRA, the fee will be refunded.

Detailed information on the Skilled Worker Program Assessment Criteria is available on the TRA website at www.deewr.gov.au/tra.

If you are still not sure why your application was unsuccessful after you have read the information on the website, you can request feedback by telephoning the TRA National Enquiry Line on: +61 2 6121 7456 or by emailing traenquiries@deewr.gov.au.


在表格中Training documents，Work experience documents的文档证据是写的"YES". 真有些茫然到底对于培训经历和工作经验到底是认可还是不认可。

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extreme_way

和LZ的经历类似，第一次给我的理由也是学历问题：
You have provided evidence of having completed the 3 year Diploma of XXXXX. However, the Course Description and Academic Transcripts which you have provided indicate that this formal training is not at trade level.
后来我用中专文凭，其它材料都没改就过了，关键是国内的大专除了有些专业TRA承认，大部份的都不承认（尤其是电子方面的专业了），如果LZ有中专文凭的话，试试看吧，祝你好运！

starheart

原帖由 extreme_way 于 7-6-2011 10:58 发表

                               
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和LZ的经历类似，第一次给我的理由也是学历问题：
You have provided evidence of having completed the 3 year Diploma of XXXXX. However, the Course Description and Academic Transcripts which you have provided indicate that this formal training is not at trade level.
后来我用中专文凭，其它材料都没改就过了，关键是国内的大专除了有些专业TRA承认，大部份的都不承认（尤其是电子方面的专业了），如果LZ有中专文凭的话，试试看吧，祝你好运！

但愿能完全类似，但是绝对是不可能了，兄台已经有了船票。
给的理由很委婉，只是说要求所学专业和职业直接相关。没有直接说我提供的毕业证和成绩单到底能用不能用，没有像前辈的一样给个明确的话，让人有点摸不着。
中专文凭是没有滴，那就是意味着TRA结束了？
在表格中Training documents，Work experience documents的文档证据是写的"YES".对于培训经历和工作经验到底是认可还是不认可。

narcsity

LZ主要的问题在于：
第一：900小时正式培训的证明；
第二：雇佣关系不能明确出你的职业，关键在你的AAA公司的推荐信中只说明了你的学徒期是18个月，并没有材料来支撑，需要一些证明之类的材料吧。或者OJT时填的表啊，还有完成培训的项目以及指导老师的签字啊什么的。

我不太赞同2楼关于学历说，只要所学和工作相关即可。

PS，我七月也开始TRA了，一起加油吧！

starheart

原帖由 narcsity 于 7-6-2011 13:47 发表

                               
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LZ主要的问题在于：
第一：900小时正式培训的证明；
第二：雇佣关系不能明确出你的职业，关键在你的AAA公司的推荐信中只说明了你的学徒期是18个月，并没有材料来支撑，需要一些证明之类的材料吧。或者OJT时填的表啊，还有完成培训的项目以及指导老师的签字啊什么的。

我不太赞同2楼关于学历说，只要所学和工作相关即可。

PS，我七月也开始TRA了，一起加油吧！

TRA共勉！
关于第一点，信中没有明确大专毕业证和成绩单是否可以证明。
关于第二点，非正规的学徒没有这么多书面材料吧，看到之前一些案例是用师傅的推荐信来证明，于是设想推荐信就已经足够了，何况原本也没有这些书面材料的。难啊！那就得虚拟一些材料出来了。

narcsity

我觉得老外比较注重那些支撑性的文件。
就如同雅思写作一样，一个论点必须有例子来支撑，TRA评估其实很简单就是看你提到的那些点是否满足了你的职业要求，还有那些点对应的证据是否充足。
我也很惶恐，毕竟TRA的通过率太低了。

kamiyasama

Trades Recognition Australia (TRA) requires detailed and verifiable evidence of completing 900 hours of formal training (structured tuition), which is accredited by an authorised governing body; and is directly related to the nominated occupation. Formal Training (structured tuition) has to include detailed and verifiable evidence of completing the theoretical part of the nominated occupation at a college or school, which is accredited by an authorised governing body to deliver the nominated course.
Detailed and verifiable evidence of Formal Training (structured tuition) would include; Certificate/Diploma and Academic Transcript from a college which is accredited by an authorised governing body. Formal training (structured tuition) must be directly related to the nominated occupation.

关于900小时，就国内目前的现状而言，就是2年的在校学习，与中专大专无关，但是本科可能就有点关系了。我当时被拒的时候，第一条理由几乎和你一摸一样。
首先，你要有东西证明你完成了900小时培训，就是毕业证。
其次，你要有东西证明这900小时里面学的东西和你的专业有关，这里需要几样东西，一是成绩单，有学时为佳；二是课程说明，简略的说明一下每门课程都学点什么，注意前面的一和二课程应该和你从事的职业有关，没有关系也要扯上关系，至于文中的学校资质云云，大可不必理会。

You have provided no evidence of having undertaken a period of practical training equivalent to an informal apprenticeship or a traineeship directly related to the nominated trade. Therefore, the evidence fails to demonstrate completion of the four/five year period of directly related and relevant employment and training set out in the SWPAC. TRA requires distinct evidence in any future applications to demonstrate completion of an apprenticeship or traineeship. You will need to provide evidence of practical on-the-job training under the direct
supervision of a qualified tradesperson in the occupation or trade. Additionally you will need to provide evidence of successful completion of the informal apprenticeship or traineeship that has resulted in you being recognised by an acceptable employer as a fully qualified tradesperson.

这里说你没有提供任何证据证明你完成了pathway B必须的5年经历。从你提供的推荐信来看，你在A公司实习了18个月，从2000/5-2001/12，我暂且理解为这是你毕业之后直接进入公司进行的实习，中间没有间断。以下是TRA关于5years的定义或者说是解释。
10.3.
Formal training: The training cited must be formal, vocational training which:
10.3.1.
consists of not less than 900 hours of structured tuition;含900学时专业课程学习
10.3.2.
has been conducted within 2 years of the apprenticeship;含2年的实习经验
10.3.3.
is directly related to the occupation;与提名职业相关
10.3.4.
has been accredited by an authorised governing body whose standards can be independently verified by TRA (e.g. government, military or recognised industrial party); and
10.3.5.
results in certification verifying completion of such training.有证据证明该过程完成。

评估官质疑你的900小时是因为你没有提供detail，质疑你的apprenticeship是因为你实习不足24个月，只有18个月，而且也没有证据可以证明你顺利通过了18（24）个月的实习工作，由此导致了你的assessment失败。所谓的通过实习的证据，其实只要用人单位认可你，2年后与你正式签订劳动合同，或者在工作证明中书面表示认可你这24个月的学徒经历。

It has been noted that your employment with your employers appears not to be directly related to the nominated trade, however, your references fail to demonstrate your work experience.

这里说你的employment与你的提名职业没有直接关系，这里我建议你看看TRA网站上的Assessment Criteria文档中，关于employment的定义，下面只谈谈我的个人看法。
官方文档中的5 years，是包含
1 不少于900小时的课程学习
2 24个月的学徒
3 因上述学徒经历产生的employment，个人理解就是，你在该公司实习/学徒，期满后工司认可你，继续以一个合格trade person的身份留用你，这是我对directly这个词的理解，而并非学非所用的意思。
1+2+3>=5 years，就是合格的。
那么国内的情况就是，2年中（大）专学习，2年实习（学徒），1年工作经验，加在一起满足5年的要求。
而你的情况是，2年学习，1年半实习，之后包含在5年内的1年工作经验貌似我没找到。从你的推荐信来看，没有证据可以证明你在2002年1月~6月之间你在干什么，而这6个月对于5 years来说是很重要的。

最后，你的推荐信，建议你围绕职业说明来写。这里给你直接贴过来了。还有，apprenticeship这个词，就是学徒，和“试用期”完全扯不上关系，建议你的推荐信里，试用期就不要写了，免得引发歧义。

Occupation: 342315 - Electronic Instrument Trades Worker (Special Class)

(Industrial Measurement and Control Technician)

Installs, modifies, maintains and repairs complex electronic instruments and control systems which involve a combination of electrical, electronic, mechanical, hydraulic and pneumatic principles. Registration or licensing may be required.

Skill Level:
The entry requirement for this occupation is the qualifications and experience. AQF Certificate III including at least 2 years of on-the-job training, or AQF Certificate IV (ANZSCO Skill Level 3). At least 3 years of relevant experience may substitute for the formal qualifications listed above. In some instances relevant experience and/or on-the-job training may be required in addition to the formal qualification.

Tasks Include:

•examining and testing machines equipment, instruments and control systems to diagnose faults
•adjusting, repairing, and replacing worn and defective parts and wiring, and maintaining machines, equipment and instruments
•reassembling, test operating and adjusting equipment
•advising users of correct operating procedures to prevent malfunctions
•receiving messages by interpreting code and converting to plain language, and writing and typing messages for transmission
•monitoring radio traffic, and transmitting and receiving voice messages
•installing electronic instruments and control systems
•applying knowledge of electrical, electronic, mechanical, hydraulic and pneumatic principles in commissioning and maintaining control systems

理由第3、4段写了没有提供非正规学徒的证据，不明白为啥说和申请评估的不是直接相关职业，难道鬼佬一根筋认为推荐信上写的title是Engineer就不判定为Trades Worker；在此是参照许多TRA前辈的经验在推荐信中提及学徒经历，并且推荐人认可完成学徒，工作经验写了90页的图文并茂的维修保养案例，摘录维修手册中的步骤和图片写的现在公司的工作，没有写前2家公司的。

TRA评估是看你做什么，不看你的job title。工作经验你写的够了，但是如果90页能cover你所有工作过的公司那就更好了。那份表格里面的两个yes只是说收到了这两份文件，这个可以忽略，认不认可要看左面的ABCE，认可的就会给你yes，你要拿到两个yes才能拿到移民路上的第一张paper。目前国内的技工评估途径，貌似只有B一条路，因为我们没有澳洲承认的职业培训机构，我们的中专大专都属于非正规培训。所以，你只要想办法去满足900hours和5 years，只要满足了，大多数情况下，应该能通过评估。

祝复议顺利。

[ 本帖最后由 kamiyasama 于 9-6-2011 01:09 编辑 ]

starheart

原帖由 narcsity 于 7-6-2011 14:17 发表

                               
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我觉得老外比较注重那些支撑性的文件。
就如同雅思写作一样，一个论点必须有例子来支撑，TRA评估其实很简单就是看你提到的那些点是否满足了你的职业要求，还有那些点对应的证据是否充足。
我也很惶恐，毕竟TRA的通过率太低了。

没有进一步的材料了，无望了，绝望了...

narcsity

回答得太精彩了！
学习了，多谢前辈！
请问前辈，如果本科中的课程没有满足900小时，但是正式工作之后又进行了相关培训，这个可以归入900小时之中吗？谢谢！

wlh19781030

原帖由 narcsity 于 9-6-2011 11:04 发表

                               
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回答得太精彩了！
学习了，多谢前辈！
请问前辈，如果本科中的课程没有满足900小时，但是正式工作之后又进行了相关培训，这个可以归入900小时之中吗？谢谢！

关键你那900小时需要证据支持的！

kamiyasama

原帖由 narcsity 于 9-6-2011 11:04 发表

                               
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回答得太精彩了！
学习了，多谢前辈！
请问前辈，如果本科中的课程没有满足900小时，但是正式工作之后又进行了相关培训，这个可以归入900小时之中吗？谢谢！

10.3.
Formal training: The training cited must be formal, vocational training which:
10.3.1.
consists of not less than 900 hours of structured tuition;
10.3.2.
has been conducted within 2 years of the apprenticeship;
10.3.3.
is directly related to the occupation;
10.3.4.
has been accredited by an authorised governing body whose standards can be independently verified by TRA (e.g. government, military or recognised industrial party); and
10.3.5.
results in certification verifying completion of such training.

文档中只提到了900小时和2年，并没有提到是否可以交叉混合进行计算。我个人理解，只要你5年内完成了900小时学习，2年实习，1年正式工作，应该就能满足评估条件。不过用本科学历去做TRA评估的貌似没有成功的先例。

ADLYREN

用工程师的名头来申请TRA不可行。